General (ARCHIVED) => General Occultism => Topic started by: Moon1ight on October 27, 2017, 04:04:36 am

Title: If I were to introduce someone into the Occult...
Post by: Moon1ight on October 27, 2017, 04:04:36 am
Hi everyone :)

Recently I read this thread on RuneSoup
It's about making a list of books that you would give to someone as introduction to some specific type of magick. I immediately though, "But wait, I want to include Websites and such!" So I decided to go ahead and create my own list (with Blackjack and... Blogposts!  ;) ).

I'd love to hear what ressources you have given or would give to someone who is curious and wants to learn.

Here's my list. I'll try to keep the amount of text to read to a minimum.

1. As an introduction, I'd shamelesly recommend this post by myself

2. Next, these two post by some very unusual Satanists -- These explain the Energy-approach to Magick quite well

3. Then, we need some meditation. The very short chapters on "Exclusive Concentration " and "Inclusive Awareness" in Alan Chapman's "The Camel Rides Again" provide the best information on meditation that I know. The book can be found for free on the Internet Archive:
 I'd also recomment it in general.

4. And lastly, I'd just add more details on actual Magick with the classical Arjil-Texts:

I think, with this one can start actually doing the Thing and getting experience and practice. In my "Magick is more like weightlifting than like rocket engineering"-view, practice is actually more important. The theory is just there to get on on the path -- or rather to tell one, that there is an actual path which can be taken.

Edit: Next I'd probably introduce them to the DKMU and Ellis, so they can receive help from the LS-network in their magick and also help the network grow :) I think this post from DBL , Kiki's awesome Oistar guide and a thread about the LS would do that well.
Title: Re: If I were to introduce someone into the Occult...
Post by: Moon1ight on November 10, 2017, 10:39:57 am
So, what if next the question went to Metaphysics? How does Magick work and what's this universe thing anyway? Let alone minds.... Obviously difficult questions  ;)

The resource that was recommended to me and that I would also recommend is the Kybalion. Especially Chapter 5, which argues for the following conclusion: "Following the Principle of Correspondence, we are justified in considering that THE ALL creates the Universe MENTALLY, in a manner akin to the process whereby Man creates Mental Images." ( (to read the rest, click on the "contents" in the top right corner -- I spent a while looking, probably I'm getting to old for today's webdesign ::) )

In a subgroup on FB, I wrote my interpretation of this, which covers how Magick works in my view and what our relationship with the universe is. So here come my answers, for what it's worth  ;D
This is my understanding of "Khaos Magick":

By the word "Khaos" I mean "a primordial origin-point, a gaping abyss derived from Greek lore from which the Gods and everything else stepped forth." (Frater Alysyrose) This serves as a name for the Root of all Phenomena.

The Universe is the Thoughts of Khaos (following the Kybalion's "The All" and it's mental creation). The future -- what is not decided yet -- is thus determined by the ongoing thoughts of Khaos. The Root of all Phenomena maintains the Sum of all Phenomena (the Universe) -- hence "Khaos provides" 8)

This concerns everything, including things like the vast amount of space which contains almost nothing, galaxies with no conscious observers etc.

Now comes the twist: We too are such thoughts -- and what's more, we have our own thoughts. Our minds are parts of the Big Mind of Khaos. This means that our thoughts are also its thoughts. So we naturally play a role in determining the future, get a fragment of the decision power so to speak -- and this is my answer to how Magick works  :)

In Magick, we decide on some intent -- "This happens". Now, the more of our mind-fragment's resources we put into this decision -- the more intent/concentration/energy we give it -- the more likely it becomes that the future turns out that way :) This is where Occult research comes into play -- to find out how is this actually to be done.

[Edit 15.12.18 – I suspect that there is no theoretical "how". Just infuse your intent with magick – however that feels for you – and practice it. How to lift a weight? Just lift it, you already have muscles. Lifting is a natural skill and so is magick. Some weights are too heavy though, so you have to train on lighter ones first. There is only your intent and Magick itself, no intermediaries.]

All minds together create the future states of the Universe, one after the other. Where intents conflict (as with two wizards battling for the last cookie, to use Arjil's example), the outcome with more energy poured into it manifests. (This means that the relatively inflexible "Laws of Nature" must be powered by some pretty large part of "Khaos Undivided", so to speak)

On this view, life is a contest of wills with other similar minds and whatever drives the "physical world". Thus "uncontested" chunks of reality are easier to manipulate -- I can make myself cheerful easily because no one puts energy into wanting me to be sad and it's not hard on the laws of nature. However, I can't just win the lottery, because it's highly contested by other minds and correctly predicting the complicated trajectory of the lottery machine is physically improbable. This is the gradient on which intents fall with regards to difficulty.

However, that does not mean that we have to treat the universe an an enemy from which energy must be wrested. Khaos chose to think of Magickal beings. Thus it wants Magick to work. So one needn't force the energy that surround us everywhere (the elements, prana, whatever) -- one can instead ask it for cooperation. This, I guess, I another meaning of Khaos provides ;) [This point is inspired by an acquaintance's opinion on working with the elements, thanks!]

This view -- to me -- is succinct, explains what we are seeing and "predicts" (alas post-hoc) what we are not seeing. Of course, it totally depends on the heavy premise of "The Universe is the Thoughts of Khaos" :D However, "Everything is mental" seems to be the only way to explain quite a lot of stuff... (Side note: This view also seems nice on Spirits, from Servitors to Gods -- they can simply be separate mind-fragments or (shared?) "subdivisions" of other mind-fragments.)

What do you folks say ;) ?

(Main inspirations for this are Arjil, Alysyrose, Peter Carrol and the Kybalion)
Title: Re: If I were to introduce someone into the Occult...
Post by: thief_and_a_liar on November 19, 2017, 05:09:56 pm
This isn't magic you dimwit.

If you want something in print get all the books by the golden dawn people (regardie, fortune, crowley), then get all of the medieval grimoires and start working with demons.

Title: Re: If I were to introduce someone into the Occult...
Post by: thief_and_a_liar on November 19, 2017, 05:21:55 pm
Maybe not ALL the books.

The Middle Pillar by Israel Regardie.
Book 4 by Aleister Crowley.
The Mystical Qabalah by Dion Fortune.

Should make a good start to any student.

Then for grimoires it's the Goetia (Lesser Key of Solomon) and the Grimorium Verum.

Title: Re: If I were to introduce someone into the Occult...
Post by: Moon1ight on November 20, 2017, 12:46:21 am
Hi Thief  :)

Thanks for your recommendations.
You know, I have a friend who tells me that what I do isn't proper and that I'm limiting myself (I.e. "This isn't magic you dimwit." more politely  ;D ). Instead, I ought to ask the Archangels for Guidance,  become a Lightworker and at all costs avoid associating with Demons. You see the problem with following everyone's advice here  ;)

I think I'll live my way and let you people live yours  :)
Title: Re: If I were to introduce someone into the Occult...
Post by: thief_and_a_liar on November 20, 2017, 04:38:48 am
Hi Thief  :)

Thanks for your recommendations.
You know, I have a friend who tells me that what I do isn't proper and that I'm limiting myself (I.e. "This isn't magic you dimwit." more politely  ;D ). Instead, I ought to ask the Archangels for Guidance,  become a Lightworker and at all costs avoid associating with Demons. You see the problem with following everyone's advice here  ;)

I think I'll live my way and let you people live yours  :)

Oh, I wasn't directing it at you. I would think you already conversed with archangels, was a lightworker some time in life, and had read the books I mentioned already.


Title: Re: If I were to introduce someone into the Occult...
Post by: Moon1ight on December 14, 2018, 03:34:44 pm
I want to add some random tired thoughts on my "The Universe is the Thoughts of Khaos" post :)

> Stable things like matter and the laws of nature are being focused / intended / concentrated on by some large part of Khaos with a lot of force – that's why Telekinesis is hard but apparently (?) not impossible. On the other end of the spectrum, unicorns are apparently not very strongly intended by anyone.

> So we either have free will or we don't. If we don't, it doesn't matter :D Anything we do or believe is predetermined or completely random. So we have to assume that we do have free will to keep thinking.

How can we have free will if we are merely the Thoughts of Khaos? Clearly, Harry Potter – the Thoughts of Rowling – does not have free will – he does what the Rowling thinks he will. It's very simple, as I realised today. Rowling focused on creating a character and that she did. If Khaos focuses on creating creatures with free will, or a set of laws which will generate creatures with free will, than that will happen :) So that's what I assume has happened.

> Similarly, what is Thoughtform/Servitor creation? We decide on the outcome that there will be a new spirit which will have an intent and push that intent. We put concentration into it and it happens. Very simple. The more concentration, the stronger it becomes.

> Less simple: What is "energy" in the magickal sense? Is it just a metaphor for the magickal concentration which makes things happen? Or is it an extra thing, like matter or light? I can feel energy, but that's when I focus on feeling energy – so it might just be my concentration creating the outcome I push for – "feeling energy" or "becoming energised". Maybe that's the easiest way to handle this, regardless of whether energy exists independently or not – Focus on the outcome on adding energy to this or that, getting it from this or that, and see what works best for you.

> What precisely is "focus on the outcome" or "intend the outcome"? Maybe "Push for the outcome"?  I can only answer in quotes...

Timothy Buell "[...] intentionally infusing ones Will with Magick/ energy/ prana/ whateverthefuck-you-call-it [...]"

Arjil: "Summon the vision, and more importantly, summon the Feeling, and Pretend like a kid that you’re casting your spell, and like a kid, Believe it."

I guess this is where it becomes really personal... What I feel is simply:
Focus on an outcome (as visualised result, as spoken intent, as "hearing" that it happened etc.) and on "The Feeling of Magick" going into that outcome – it's just a feeling I have, which is distinct from my other feelings... This is how I do all my stuff basically. Very simple :D

I guess "Infuse one's willed outcome with Magick" is the best way I can put it – it's simply magick, there is no intermediary. Magick is all that differentiates magick from other thoughts and wishes.

I need to go to bed ;)
Title: Re: If I were to introduce someone into the Occult...
Post by: Moon1ight on December 15, 2018, 12:31:16 am
So I want to try drafting up a guide to magick which contains the best I've learned from various DKMU and non-DKMU sources. My aim is to make it as short as possible:

Learning Only Magick

What kind of title is that? Very simple: This text does not deal with chakras, archangels, ethics, stones, demons, herbs, tools or rituals. It deals Only with Magick – the Art of Doing the Impossible. Magick with no intermediaries.

So you have wishes. Getting well, helping your friend find a job, removing that asshole out of your life, geting laid or making the world a better place. What you care about is not the wish though, it's the outcome – you are healthy, your friend has a great job and the asshole is gone or actually became a friend somehow. That's what we do Magick for.

However, a desired outcome is not Magick – it's just a desire. Now what differentiates a desire from Magick? Here's where other texts will start speaking about sigils, candles and archangels. Doing something will turn the desired outcome into Magick and from there to an actual outcome. However, I have no "somethings" – I only have Magick. The Only thing that can differentiate Magick from desires is Magick itself.

So how to use that? You have to intentionally infuse your desired outcome with Magick. How? Well, how to lift a weight? You don't need a candle or a sigil, just lift it. You're already born with the capability of lifting weights – movement is a "standalone capability". You cannot get to it via candles, you have to do Only Movement. Of course, some weights are too heavy to lift, but it's not because you used the wrong colour of candle – it's because your muscles are too weak.

Magick is just like that – you're born with the capability to do it. It's less visible than your muscles, but I can't find your capabilities to enjoy music or to fall in love under the microscope either and they clearly exist. So how to find that capability of Magick?

If you have an instinct now, how Magick feels for you, what it means to "infuse your desired outcome with Magick" or to "magickally intend the outcome", then that is the answer. Just do that – practice it on the outcomes you desire and get good – more on that later. The system improves with use, just like your muscles.

If not, here's a starting point: In your ideal world, how would you do it? How would you wish the process worked? Start doing that and feel into yourself, what feels like Magick to you. How does a lifting a weight feel, as opposed to seeing a video of a weight being lifted? How does doing Magick feel, as opposed to seeing it done in Harry Potter? That feeling is your Only tool. Just like the feeling of lifting weights only comes with, you know, lifting actual weights, your feeling of Magick comes with Magick – so there is Only your desired outcome and Magick. Very simple. What could a candle or lines on paper really add?

A final note: When Magick helps you, be grateful. Grateful to Magick, grateful to your spirits, grateful to the Universe and to the Root of Universe – however you see it. Magick deserves it and it also helps.


> How to focus on the outcome which you want to infuse with Magick?
If you have an answer, if you feel a way, then that's the way. If not, here are some ideas, find which work best for you:

Imagine it being true – I don't say "visualise" because that's not all there is! See your friend being healthy again, hear him telling you how he feels good again, feel his temperature being back to normal – whatever applies. How do you imagine always being healthy? See and hear yourself at the next New Years Eve, talking about how you were healthy the entire year and feel how good that feels.
But don't think that's the Magick! This is not "Law of Attraction" here. Imagining is just focusing on the outcome. Now infuse it with Magick, intend it to become reality.

Make a symbol out of it – sigilise the desired outcome. What? Wasn't I arguing against that? Yes, if you try to use that instead of Magick itself – if you try to get to Magick through Not-Magick. It's only paper and ink, just like a desire is only a desire. But you can use it to focus the desired outcome. "This sigil symbolises that the job interview goes well for me" – now infuse it with Magick.

Create a Spirit for it – or a "thoughtform" or a "servitor". Focus on the outcome that there is a spirit which intends your actual outcome to happen and makes it happen. This is what I do for outcomes which are permanent – I always want to stay healthy, have my stuff work well and so on. Focus on its qualities – look, character, voice – and on its intent – which desired outcome it is to make (or keep) a reality. Infuse that with Magick and keep powering it up regularly as long as you wish. Witches' familiars, Chaos Magick's servitors – long-term solutions.

> What to practice on?
Here is where occult texts can be helpful – what outcomes can you try? Random ideas: Meet a person with red hair, a red bag and a tiny dog next week. Help a nervous friend stay concentrated in an exam. Create a shield that blocks of anything that would lead you away from your desired outcomes. Pull energy from any of the various traditional sources to feel more energetic. Damn, just be happy, able to afford what you want and have a good time.
I personally only do stuff I really care about, unlike the first example, though I did my share of that when I started. I'm okay with not seeing immediate effects, with, among other things, "just" staying healthy most of the time and getting well in a few days when I do fall sick (hasn't happened in years, now that I think of it).

> Why do I think this works?
Because of my experience with it working. Ask yourself from the other side: If Only Magick doesn't work, why would adding a candle (of the right colour!) help? Is the world such that wax has magickal properties, but your actually felt Magick does not? Why should an archangel be able (and willing!) to do it, but you can't? He's a spirit and so are you. And you even managed to get a body somehow, which is pretty cool, though not without disadvantages.
To me, if Magick works at all, it must be Only Magick. Everything else is just to reserve time, space and concentration for infusing your will with Magick. Or of course to create a complex system to make people pay money and or accept some guru for his ego's sake.

Let me end with the words of two people who taught me a lot:

Arjil: "When you think about magick, how do you Wish the process worked?
Do That. Keep at it till it works. And it will."

Gracco: "just do it. that is literally the clearest terms"