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#1
General Occultism / True Will, True Love and the H...
Last post by Moon1ight - December 25, 2022, 09:13:23 AMSo, later in 2023, there will be an occult conference in Berlin – Occulture https://occultureconference.com/. They have a Call for Proposals out and I'm considering to apply :D In an inspired moment, I've recorded a voice message with my Lecture idea which I'll try to develop in this thread. Any feedback is of course welcome.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
This is both the traditional thelemic greeting and part of what I want to talk about.
We know – for example from Liber II – that the Will meant here is the True Will. It's not what I just happen to want right now, but perhaps what I should want. We also know that Crowley gives the central idea of the White School of Magick as "admitted that "everything is sorrow" for the profane, the Initiate has the means of transforming it to "Everything is joy."".
So on my naive understanding, your True Will is simply that which fulfils you. More specifically, it's the action which fulfils you. It's not a goal, since if that goal was suddenly achieved, you'd still have the question of what to do with your time. Consider "playing the piano" versus "becoming the best pianist in the world". If the second happens, you'll hopefully not stop doing the first.
So the very basic idea is that you use experimentation and introspection to find the action that fulfils you. When you find it, it won't be merely 'interesting' or 'fun', it'll bring you deep happiness while you do it and afterwards – Fulfilment.
Now, the traditional thelemic farewell is "Love is the Law, Love under Will". Here we come to the central question of this talk. If The True Will is the whole of the Law, how can Love also be the Law? There must be a very deep connection between Will and Love, which is of course famously implied by them both adding up to 93 via greek isopsephy. So, what is this connection?
There is a trivial answer like saying that you should love your will, or something similar. However, I think it's intuitively clear that there must be more to it. We already know what Love feels like to us... I think that the most obvious and direct meaning of Love is romantic Love – to be in love with someone, to be together.
Now, in Liber II Crowley mentions that if contradictions arise between will and love, it is the True Will that will guide us aright. So, just as not all will is True Will, not all love is True Love. To use a simple illustration, let's say our pianist falls in love with a rock climber. Now conflicts can arise and they will have to find compromises for the usage of their time. This falls short of fulfilment and contradicts Crowley's idea of being one-pointed in the pursuit of the True Will. So we get to the idea that lovers approach True Love to the extent that their True Wills are compatible. This, I think is the basic connection between Will and Love.
However, how can you possibly find the Person who shares your True Will? This is really my main point today: Why do you think each of those Holy Guardian Angels whom Crowley exalts so much is with their specific human? I'd argue that it's exactly because they share our True Will and hence they are our True Love. They are our Perfection, while we are their Presence.
This, I think, is a meaning hidden in the greeting and the farewell. Only by loving your True Love – your Guide and Guardian who shares your True Will – can you both follow this Will with full force. Hence, doing your True Will is the Whole of the Law, because it already implies Love. Conversely, True Love is the Law because it follows from the True Will.
Now I know that this all sounds rather crazy. Personally, I came to these ideas from the other direction. My background is in Chaos Magick and I was never a big fan of Crowley and his works. I felt that doing Magick makes me very happy, but I never thought of it as my "True Will". I met my Guardian Angel in rather unusual circumstances and didn't even understand what kind of spirit she was – I just noticed that she was truly wonderful, in so many different ways. Some years later I fell in love with her and only then she guided me to all of this Thelema stuff that I used to consider beneath me as 21st century Chaos Magician. So for me, all of this "theory" simply followed from my experiences.
... To be continued ...
(not sure where, but add the core points from The Way of the Secret Lover and from Magickal Destiny (esp. about Abramelin and other approaches). Also what Crowley writes about each being their own high priest and Chapman's approach to the K&C. Also what I write in FW.)
(What's even so special about us that we should have a Guardian Angel each? – different point, we can also think of us as being here to manifest their will etc.)
Love is the Law, Love under Will.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
This is both the traditional thelemic greeting and part of what I want to talk about.
We know – for example from Liber II – that the Will meant here is the True Will. It's not what I just happen to want right now, but perhaps what I should want. We also know that Crowley gives the central idea of the White School of Magick as "admitted that "everything is sorrow" for the profane, the Initiate has the means of transforming it to "Everything is joy."".
So on my naive understanding, your True Will is simply that which fulfils you. More specifically, it's the action which fulfils you. It's not a goal, since if that goal was suddenly achieved, you'd still have the question of what to do with your time. Consider "playing the piano" versus "becoming the best pianist in the world". If the second happens, you'll hopefully not stop doing the first.
So the very basic idea is that you use experimentation and introspection to find the action that fulfils you. When you find it, it won't be merely 'interesting' or 'fun', it'll bring you deep happiness while you do it and afterwards – Fulfilment.
Now, the traditional thelemic farewell is "Love is the Law, Love under Will". Here we come to the central question of this talk. If The True Will is the whole of the Law, how can Love also be the Law? There must be a very deep connection between Will and Love, which is of course famously implied by them both adding up to 93 via greek isopsephy. So, what is this connection?
There is a trivial answer like saying that you should love your will, or something similar. However, I think it's intuitively clear that there must be more to it. We already know what Love feels like to us... I think that the most obvious and direct meaning of Love is romantic Love – to be in love with someone, to be together.
Now, in Liber II Crowley mentions that if contradictions arise between will and love, it is the True Will that will guide us aright. So, just as not all will is True Will, not all love is True Love. To use a simple illustration, let's say our pianist falls in love with a rock climber. Now conflicts can arise and they will have to find compromises for the usage of their time. This falls short of fulfilment and contradicts Crowley's idea of being one-pointed in the pursuit of the True Will. So we get to the idea that lovers approach True Love to the extent that their True Wills are compatible. This, I think is the basic connection between Will and Love.
However, how can you possibly find the Person who shares your True Will? This is really my main point today: Why do you think each of those Holy Guardian Angels whom Crowley exalts so much is with their specific human? I'd argue that it's exactly because they share our True Will and hence they are our True Love. They are our Perfection, while we are their Presence.
This, I think, is a meaning hidden in the greeting and the farewell. Only by loving your True Love – your Guide and Guardian who shares your True Will – can you both follow this Will with full force. Hence, doing your True Will is the Whole of the Law, because it already implies Love. Conversely, True Love is the Law because it follows from the True Will.
Now I know that this all sounds rather crazy. Personally, I came to these ideas from the other direction. My background is in Chaos Magick and I was never a big fan of Crowley and his works. I felt that doing Magick makes me very happy, but I never thought of it as my "True Will". I met my Guardian Angel in rather unusual circumstances and didn't even understand what kind of spirit she was – I just noticed that she was truly wonderful, in so many different ways. Some years later I fell in love with her and only then she guided me to all of this Thelema stuff that I used to consider beneath me as 21st century Chaos Magician. So for me, all of this "theory" simply followed from my experiences.
... To be continued ...
(not sure where, but add the core points from The Way of the Secret Lover and from Magickal Destiny (esp. about Abramelin and other approaches). Also what Crowley writes about each being their own high priest and Chapman's approach to the K&C. Also what I write in FW.)
(What's even so special about us that we should have a Guardian Angel each? – different point, we can also think of us as being here to manifest their will etc.)
Love is the Law, Love under Will.
#2
Member Introductions / Re: Hello
Last post by Moon1ight - December 13, 2022, 09:24:46 AMHi and welcome. Yeah, the forum is rather inactive. It does serve as a rather useful archive of good material. I personally also still use it as a kind of private blog :D
If you want to talk to more Marauders, see the Discord and the FB-Group.
If you want to talk to more Marauders, see the Discord and the FB-Group.
#3
Member Introductions / Hello
Last post by androkles zx00 - November 30, 2022, 07:23:39 PMHello again!
I apologize for posting my introductory message as a separate topic - I only now discovered this section.
It sure looks few of DKMU people maraude here nowdays, it feels kinda desrted...
I apologize for posting my introductory message as a separate topic - I only now discovered this section.
It sure looks few of DKMU people maraude here nowdays, it feels kinda desrted...
#4
Announcements / Re: Hello garden and meadow an...
Last post by androkles zx00 - November 30, 2022, 06:39:09 PMFor some reason my intro came up all grogy. Anyway, I wish to say to all of you: hello!! Looking forward to some meaningful interactions. May ZALTY chime in.
Much love to all Xaotes and beyond...
Much love to all Xaotes and beyond...
#5
Announcements / Hello garden and meadow and co...
Last post by androkles zx00 - November 30, 2022, 06:34:41 PMOK. This me. Androkles zx00. :( 8)
[/size][/color]Shown Here by Seren Dipity.
[/size][/color]My credentials: (ex)adykt.
[/size][/color]Also HMLer.
[/size][/color]Read the DKMU writings, they = full of good stuff. I like obscure juvenilia.
[/size][/color]I live [/color]in Slovenia. I die in the Kosm[/color]os. Now for some zxx001,09 interactions...[/color][/i][/b]
[/size][/color]Shown Here by Seren Dipity.
[/size][/color]My credentials: (ex)adykt.
[/size][/color]Also HMLer.
[/size][/color]Read the DKMU writings, they = full of good stuff. I like obscure juvenilia.
[/size][/color]I live [/color]in Slovenia. I die in the Kosm[/color]os. Now for some zxx001,09 interactions...[/color][/i][/b]
#6
General Occultism / Re: Chaotic and limitless viol...
Last post by Robert Solvec - October 21, 2022, 04:05:47 PMI like that interpretation, that a demonic energy could be seen as an obstacle or distraction from the 'goal', if you will. William Parfitt is good, I read 'The New Living Qabalah' which covers a lot of the sepiroth anyhow, but didn't get much into the qliphoth part.
#7
General Occultism / Re: Chaotic and limitless viol...
Last post by teddy569 - October 07, 2022, 02:52:49 AMinteresting information
#8
General Occultism / Re: Chaotic and limitless viol...
Last post by Moon1ight - October 04, 2022, 01:25:09 AMHi and welcome :)
on my knowledge of the literature, the HGA is associated with the Sephirah of Tiferet – the Beauty resulting from a harmony between divine Severity and Mercy – Will and Love.
(See e.g.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200901111545/https://luxsaturni.com/kabbalah/tiphereth/
or this book: https://www.willparfitt.com/books/kabbalah-for-life )
Now, the Other Side of Tiferet is Thagirion (also spelled Tagimron), right? A constant battle between Contending Forces.
( https://theomagica.com/on-the-nature-of-the-qlippoth/
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thagirion&oldid=945267347 )
So the Sitra Ahra counterpart of the HGA would appear to be one of the Demons of this Qlipah, which are know as the Disputers and are apparently named Zomiel (though "Zomiel" sounds like a word in singular to me, like one Demon, not an order).
This fits with my experience that the Angel is very focused and single-minded, while hostile impulses keep coming from all sorts of different directions. My Angels wants me to follow my True Will, whereas something wants me chase politics one day, e-scooters another day and computer games the next one. That kind of fits your description of "violently attacking demon".
on my knowledge of the literature, the HGA is associated with the Sephirah of Tiferet – the Beauty resulting from a harmony between divine Severity and Mercy – Will and Love.
(See e.g.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200901111545/https://luxsaturni.com/kabbalah/tiphereth/
or this book: https://www.willparfitt.com/books/kabbalah-for-life )
Now, the Other Side of Tiferet is Thagirion (also spelled Tagimron), right? A constant battle between Contending Forces.
( https://theomagica.com/on-the-nature-of-the-qlippoth/
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thagirion&oldid=945267347 )
So the Sitra Ahra counterpart of the HGA would appear to be one of the Demons of this Qlipah, which are know as the Disputers and are apparently named Zomiel (though "Zomiel" sounds like a word in singular to me, like one Demon, not an order).
This fits with my experience that the Angel is very focused and single-minded, while hostile impulses keep coming from all sorts of different directions. My Angels wants me to follow my True Will, whereas something wants me chase politics one day, e-scooters another day and computer games the next one. That kind of fits your description of "violently attacking demon".
#9
General Occultism / Re: Magick – Fulfilled Wishes,...
Last post by Moon1ight - September 30, 2022, 03:21:55 AMCopying my own post from Facebook, where I asked about folks' view about Models of the World, especially with regards to where the spirits live.
Main Sources:
https://theomagica.com/the-dweller-on-the-threshold
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Worlds
https://web.archive.org/web/20210417220136/https://luxsaturni.com/kabbalah/
So here's my simple interpretation of the Kabbalistic Four Worlds:
1. Atziluth (the World of Emanation) – The most fundamental part of Creation. I feel like Kether is Oneness, "All-encompassingness", Binah is Passivity and Form, while Chockmah is Activity and Force – this is however not something I'm all that knowledgeable about.
2. Beriah (or Briah? Ahavah Ain Soph, please explain בְּרִיאָה ☺️) (the World of Creation) – I think of it as the Soul Plane. Here are the basic Archetypes of all "things" that exist. Here are also our Souls with their True Wills. This is actually connected – if there is an Archetype of Magick, there are souls who's True Wills are to Do Magick, and so for all other Archetypes.
3. Yetzirah (the World of Formation) – This is the Astral Plane. According Acher/Parfit it contains Thoughts (Hod), Emotions (Netzach) and Perceptions / the Subconscious (Yesod). However, traditionally the Astral Plan is supposed to contain the Spirits. Now my problem was that I didn't see how to reconcile that. Yesterday I asked Alice 🥰 and she somehow made me realise: Spirits are those who *have* Thoughts, Emotions and Perceptions! (These things aren't made of physical matter, otherwise Angels wouldn't have them 😃.) That's why Spirits are on the Astral Plane with their astral bodies, thoughts etc. (as of course are we, with our astral bodies, thoughts etc.)
4. Assiah (the World of Action) – This is the Physical Plane with material bodies, electricity, light etc.
I think that's good enough for me, though of course many questions remain. For example, we're separated from our Souls by the Veil of Paroketh (between 2 and 3) but our thoughts and our angel's 🥰 thoughts are both in Yetzirah – why is communication so difficult then?
Main Sources:
https://theomagica.com/the-dweller-on-the-threshold
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Worlds
https://web.archive.org/web/20210417220136/https://luxsaturni.com/kabbalah/
So here's my simple interpretation of the Kabbalistic Four Worlds:
1. Atziluth (the World of Emanation) – The most fundamental part of Creation. I feel like Kether is Oneness, "All-encompassingness", Binah is Passivity and Form, while Chockmah is Activity and Force – this is however not something I'm all that knowledgeable about.
2. Beriah (or Briah? Ahavah Ain Soph, please explain בְּרִיאָה ☺️) (the World of Creation) – I think of it as the Soul Plane. Here are the basic Archetypes of all "things" that exist. Here are also our Souls with their True Wills. This is actually connected – if there is an Archetype of Magick, there are souls who's True Wills are to Do Magick, and so for all other Archetypes.
3. Yetzirah (the World of Formation) – This is the Astral Plane. According Acher/Parfit it contains Thoughts (Hod), Emotions (Netzach) and Perceptions / the Subconscious (Yesod). However, traditionally the Astral Plan is supposed to contain the Spirits. Now my problem was that I didn't see how to reconcile that. Yesterday I asked Alice 🥰 and she somehow made me realise: Spirits are those who *have* Thoughts, Emotions and Perceptions! (These things aren't made of physical matter, otherwise Angels wouldn't have them 😃.) That's why Spirits are on the Astral Plane with their astral bodies, thoughts etc. (as of course are we, with our astral bodies, thoughts etc.)
4. Assiah (the World of Action) – This is the Physical Plane with material bodies, electricity, light etc.
I think that's good enough for me, though of course many questions remain. For example, we're separated from our Souls by the Veil of Paroketh (between 2 and 3) but our thoughts and our angel's 🥰 thoughts are both in Yetzirah – why is communication so difficult then?
#10
The Assault on Reality / We are the Marauder Undergroun...
Last post by Moon1ight - September 13, 2022, 07:04:10 AMThis is a great little text from an old MU webpage, recently brought back to the FB by Frater Alysyrose. I'm not sure whose writing it is, I'd guess Silenced...
"We are the Marauder Underground. Our primary activity is attacking what is commonly known as consensual reality, the dominant paradigm, the mundane world, whatever you want to call it. We cast spells, scribe sigils, summon spirits, and open gateways. Anything that can be done to influence reality towards our goal. We use chalk to tag buildings & sidewalks with sigils and goetic summonings. We conjure up spirits and set them loose, leaving in our wake freshly haunted sites. We infect the population with the power of chaos and watch as random magick explodes into the lives of unsuspecting citizens. We are reality deviants in the truest sense of the word, as we pry open the eyes of a sleeping humanity to the terror and wonder of the worlds beyond."
"We are the Marauder Underground. Our primary activity is attacking what is commonly known as consensual reality, the dominant paradigm, the mundane world, whatever you want to call it. We cast spells, scribe sigils, summon spirits, and open gateways. Anything that can be done to influence reality towards our goal. We use chalk to tag buildings & sidewalks with sigils and goetic summonings. We conjure up spirits and set them loose, leaving in our wake freshly haunted sites. We infect the population with the power of chaos and watch as random magick explodes into the lives of unsuspecting citizens. We are reality deviants in the truest sense of the word, as we pry open the eyes of a sleeping humanity to the terror and wonder of the worlds beyond."