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#21
General Occultism / Re: Magick – Fulfilled Wishes,...
Last post by Moon1ight - April 13, 2022, 05:46:11 AMDraft: Theodicy of Khaos
In our Universe, one can find Fulfilment by doing one's True Will together with one's True Love, the Guardian Angel. However, it is not easy – it doesn't come naturally. That's the part which is hard to make sense of: If Khaos – the Root of all Phenomena – wants its little parts to be fulfilled, why doesn't this come naturally? Why are we not born with the feeling that someone lovingly watches over us, why does the Knowledge and Conversation have to be obtained? Why do we have to "find ourselves" – which many fail to do – instead of just realising quickly that "I'm a pianist" or a rock-climber or a mage? I'm tempted to answer something along the lines of "The Demiurge built the material world this way", "The Veil of Paroketh prevents it" or "Thagirion gets in the way", but that only moves the problem of Theodicy one step further – why do these entities exist? Why does Khaos let them do this?
On the other hand, if Khaos places no special value on Fulfilment, then why is it possible at all? Why is there a True Will and a True Love in the first place?
I know of no plausible explanation and would very much like to hear yours. However, I found a somewhat implausible one that I have to accept as working theory for the time being. It was presented by Scott Alexander and admittedly, he means it as satire: https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/03/15/answer-to-job/
Rewritten to my framework it goes like this:
Khaos maximises Fulfilment over the Multiverse. So there is a perfect universe without any Veils where all souls are born with the Knowledge of their True Will and in Contact with their True Love. However, there can only be one such universe. To create more Fulfilment, Khaos also has to also think of a slightly less perfect universe, with more distractions and impediments, and so on all the way down to to a universe that has just barely more Fulfilment than Suffering (or whatever the opposite of Fulfilment is for you). A universe with more Suffering than Fulfilment would be a net loss and therefore does not get created. And we probably live in a universe on the lower end of the spectrum, which is why Fulfilment is possible but difficult.
Edit: A friend quickly pointed out that Khaos might also just value the difficulty in itself. It's certainly thinkable. However, as my Angel keeps reminding me the underlying metaphysics don't matter much – what counts is to actually do your True Will together with your True Love.
Edit 2: A note derived from Scott Alexander's work: The amount of Fulfilment in a universe is obviously not constant, but shrinks and grows with time. A universe gets created if and only if it will contain more Fulfilment than Suffering during the course of it's entire existence. This means that the Veil might well be removable, so that much more Fulfilment becomes possible!
In our Universe, one can find Fulfilment by doing one's True Will together with one's True Love, the Guardian Angel. However, it is not easy – it doesn't come naturally. That's the part which is hard to make sense of: If Khaos – the Root of all Phenomena – wants its little parts to be fulfilled, why doesn't this come naturally? Why are we not born with the feeling that someone lovingly watches over us, why does the Knowledge and Conversation have to be obtained? Why do we have to "find ourselves" – which many fail to do – instead of just realising quickly that "I'm a pianist" or a rock-climber or a mage? I'm tempted to answer something along the lines of "The Demiurge built the material world this way", "The Veil of Paroketh prevents it" or "Thagirion gets in the way", but that only moves the problem of Theodicy one step further – why do these entities exist? Why does Khaos let them do this?
On the other hand, if Khaos places no special value on Fulfilment, then why is it possible at all? Why is there a True Will and a True Love in the first place?
I know of no plausible explanation and would very much like to hear yours. However, I found a somewhat implausible one that I have to accept as working theory for the time being. It was presented by Scott Alexander and admittedly, he means it as satire: https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/03/15/answer-to-job/
Rewritten to my framework it goes like this:
Khaos maximises Fulfilment over the Multiverse. So there is a perfect universe without any Veils where all souls are born with the Knowledge of their True Will and in Contact with their True Love. However, there can only be one such universe. To create more Fulfilment, Khaos also has to also think of a slightly less perfect universe, with more distractions and impediments, and so on all the way down to to a universe that has just barely more Fulfilment than Suffering (or whatever the opposite of Fulfilment is for you). A universe with more Suffering than Fulfilment would be a net loss and therefore does not get created. And we probably live in a universe on the lower end of the spectrum, which is why Fulfilment is possible but difficult.
Edit: A friend quickly pointed out that Khaos might also just value the difficulty in itself. It's certainly thinkable. However, as my Angel keeps reminding me the underlying metaphysics don't matter much – what counts is to actually do your True Will together with your True Love.
Edit 2: A note derived from Scott Alexander's work: The amount of Fulfilment in a universe is obviously not constant, but shrinks and grows with time. A universe gets created if and only if it will contain more Fulfilment than Suffering during the course of it's entire existence. This means that the Veil might well be removable, so that much more Fulfilment becomes possible!
#22
Member Introductions / Re: Hello!
Last post by Wyrd Brother - March 22, 2022, 06:56:41 PMThank you both! :)
#23
Member Introductions / Re: Hello Everyone | Intro
Last post by FISHSTICKS - March 22, 2022, 08:35:27 AM #24
Member Introductions / Re: Sup
Last post by FISHSTICKS - March 22, 2022, 08:34:46 AM #25
Member Introductions / Re: Hello!!! :)
Last post by FISHSTICKS - March 22, 2022, 08:34:17 AM #26
Member Introductions / Re: Hello!
Last post by FISHSTICKS - March 22, 2022, 08:33:59 AM #27
Member Introductions / Re: The continued expedition t...
Last post by Moon1ight - March 22, 2022, 01:43:25 AMQuote from: AveMayhaps on March 17, 2022, 05:44:29 PMNow that's something I really like hearing :)
I wish to bring magic and illusion to the decidedly disillusioned,
I'm probably the only active member on the forum. However, I've notified the Discord staff that there are folks waiting for an invite here, so hopefully either I or someone else will get back to you soon.
Or have you already received the invite?
#28
Member Introductions / Re: Hello!
Last post by Moon1ight - March 22, 2022, 01:32:36 AM"Curiouser & curiouser!" indeed!
Welcome to the Sleepy Forums – I'm quite partial to them myself and there is a lot of good material here to read.
If you want to talk to anyone but me though, it is probably best to join either the Discord or the Facebook group. The latter you can just apply for on FB itself, whereas for the former you need an invite. If you express this desire here, either a Discord staff member will see it and send you one, or I will tell them :)
The true "Beginner's Guide" to the DKMU is this: https://dkmu.org/text/DKMU-Oistar-Guide.pdf
For another new member, I had compiled some other introductory material here: https://forum.dkmu.org/index.php?topic=676.msg2327#msg2327
The link to my own Occultcorpus-text is down, but if you want to read me (for some reason), you can read this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ol5f6d3v27umtqd/Fulfilled_Wishes_Fulfilled_Lives.pdf?dl=0
Welcome to the Sleepy Forums – I'm quite partial to them myself and there is a lot of good material here to read.
If you want to talk to anyone but me though, it is probably best to join either the Discord or the Facebook group. The latter you can just apply for on FB itself, whereas for the former you need an invite. If you express this desire here, either a Discord staff member will see it and send you one, or I will tell them :)
The true "Beginner's Guide" to the DKMU is this: https://dkmu.org/text/DKMU-Oistar-Guide.pdf
For another new member, I had compiled some other introductory material here: https://forum.dkmu.org/index.php?topic=676.msg2327#msg2327
The link to my own Occultcorpus-text is down, but if you want to read me (for some reason), you can read this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ol5f6d3v27umtqd/Fulfilled_Wishes_Fulfilled_Lives.pdf?dl=0
#29
Member Introductions / Hello!
Last post by Wyrd Brother - March 17, 2022, 07:59:10 PMI go by Null, calling me ∅ works just as well. While there doesn't appear to be much activity here (sad, I've always been partial to forums to tell the truth), I have decided to join here anyway. I've been lead by some interesting synchronicities from the moment I went off to learn about DKMU last night on a whim for no discernable reason. I had known only the name but not much more beyond that but it sort of started randomly gnawing at me a bit to do so.
I'm extremely curious about everything to do with DKMU. I feel a sort of connection to the information I have read so far and I want to go even deeper down the rabbit hole.
I'm extremely curious about everything to do with DKMU. I feel a sort of connection to the information I have read so far and I want to go even deeper down the rabbit hole.
#30
Member Introductions / The continued expedition towar...
Last post by AveMayhaps - March 17, 2022, 05:44:29 PMHello! I have previously inquired on admittance/appeal-to-admittance to the DKMU discord servers. Realizing now, My original post did not present the image of the well spoken, intelligent, and experienced khaot that may be ideal for such a group at the present time, and I have decided to reintroduce myself. If you would please erase my misspelled and blindly optimistic original introduction from your memory, it would be greatly appreciated.
To begin, I wish to express the magnetic draw I have experienced over recent months to this organization. As many others I am sure, I was lead to the DKMU through a string of coincidence. This string, as I have come to realize, was merely a strand in the web, and I, a fly. Working with and through the resources provided by the DKMU, I have and will continue to explore the world forged by landlines and routers - Connections and Nodes.
I would be for much time left disappointed if I did not make this second attempt (now well written and proofread) to connect to the active community of the DKMU. I wish to participate and shape this community in anyway possible, I wish to ask questions and learn from pioneers and trailblazers of the web, I wish to change the world I live in, I wish to bring magic and illusion to the decidedly disillusioned, I wish to roll in the sticky silk spun by Ellis. I ask that I only be heard. May the gods of fortune cast their die in my favour, and may the grand council of DKMU discord approval smiley warmly upon me.
I thank you for the time you have taken to hear me to those who have, and as well to those who will never.
DTTI : HTNF
To begin, I wish to express the magnetic draw I have experienced over recent months to this organization. As many others I am sure, I was lead to the DKMU through a string of coincidence. This string, as I have come to realize, was merely a strand in the web, and I, a fly. Working with and through the resources provided by the DKMU, I have and will continue to explore the world forged by landlines and routers - Connections and Nodes.
I would be for much time left disappointed if I did not make this second attempt (now well written and proofread) to connect to the active community of the DKMU. I wish to participate and shape this community in anyway possible, I wish to ask questions and learn from pioneers and trailblazers of the web, I wish to change the world I live in, I wish to bring magic and illusion to the decidedly disillusioned, I wish to roll in the sticky silk spun by Ellis. I ask that I only be heard. May the gods of fortune cast their die in my favour, and may the grand council of DKMU discord approval smiley warmly upon me.
I thank you for the time you have taken to hear me to those who have, and as well to those who will never.
DTTI : HTNF