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[Moon1ight]

Hi everyone
Recently I've stumbled over the book " An Exorcist Explains the Demonic: the Antics of Satan and His Army of Fallen Angels", written by a vatican exorcist. In a quote, I found the best description of Satanism I've ever seen so far:
"What is the [objective of Satanists]? Satanists wish to develop [their] depraved form of devotion through a diffusion of the theory and practice of three basic principles: you can do all that you wish, no one has the right to command you, and you are the god of yourself. The first principle intends to confer full liberty to the adherent on everything he wishes to do, without limits. The second is the release from the principle of authority, that is, from any obligation to obey parents, the Church, the state, and whoever places restrictions in the name of the common good. The third denies all the truth that comes directly from God: paradise, the inferno, purgatory, judgment, the Ten Commandments, the precepts of the Church, Mary, and so forth."
(https://orthosphere.wordpress.com/2018/03/12/moloch-is-but-a-vassal-of-our-true-enemy/)
I find this amazing – much clearer and purer than LaVey. 

In an argument on that blog, I also wrote my own views on Satanism, which I want to keep around:
"It is possible to hold long-term, well-considered desires which are contrary to your doctrine and thus -- on your view -- sinful. One can for example be a proud thief. You would have the thief reject his desire and instead choose to live according to Catholic desires -- "What would Jesus do?" However, if one's long-term well-considered desire are not in harmony with "Jesus' desires", I would say that one literally *cannot live* according to Jesus. If one tries, one has given up one's *own* life to become an imitation of Jesus. Contrary to Catholicism, one does not Gain Life Eternal, but rather *looses life* completely!

Thus, even on Catholicism being true, Hell seems *preferable* because then I at least get to *live* (properly understood as living *my way*) for *a while* as opposed to *not at all* by following Jesus instead of myself. The harshness of this position surprises even me

Now, of course you can directly deny my point -- "God being Truth and Goodness, being an imitation of Jesus just *is* the best way to live one's life". And what can I say to you? Take Satan as a role model! He chose damnation because that gives him at least a *bit* of *his own life*. He'd rather *die* his way *later*, than live someone else's way, since the latter option means he'd never *actually* live *at all*. Have you no Pride?"
This to me is the foundation of Finding one's True Will – the realisation that one cannot follow anything but oneself and live. From here begins the search for one's true self, for what it is that you really wish. And then you just do it and whever else is necessary to keep you going. To me, that's really all there's to it, while Crowley and LaVey go out of their way to soften up this core (see e.g. http://lib.oto-usa.org/crowley/essays/duty.html ).

[mahi]

the voices in my head have different view of satanism.  they say there are two kinds of satanism, one is pronounced saytenism and one is pronounced (like in latin) sahtahnism.

saytenism is seeing the illusionary dark side.  it is (sometimes) christians projecting their denied selves/Self onto others.  it is (sometimes) the saytenists believing they are their interpretation of evil.

sahtahnism is belief that everyone (including our selves) is fully infinitely good/evil.

[Moon1ight]

By "is fully infinitely good/evil.", do you mean "good and evil" or "either good or evil"? Or something else?

I myself don't really believe in "Evil", as a concept. I'm a fan of Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals here ( https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Genealogy_of_Morals/First_Essay ) – There is Good, the abilty to reach your goals, and Bad, failing at being good. "Evil" is what the Bad call the Good when the latter do what the former dislike

There is the phrase "the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" – and when the weak resent the strong, they call them "evil". Then they call themselves "good" for not doing what the "evil" do, attacking, killing etc. Which, since they are weak, they can't do in the first place. So they're trying to turn their weakness into a illusory virtue. That's at least my quick interpretation of Nietzsche.

Applying this to Satan we get that Satan "disobeys" (i.e. obeys his own will, not god's) and is therefore called "evil" by those who obey god.... Which simply means, people call anyone evil who disagrees with them strongly enough.

[mahi]

i mean a fusion of good/evil, which i think is a little different than good and evil, as if they are separate energies.  ...more like a homonogenation, tho still with the magnetic flowings of positive/negative.  ...like the science diagram of a magnet where every atom in the magnet holds both pos/neg.

i don't believe in evil as anything but a direction/node in a dimension.  the dimension is infinite so there is no way to get to the end, to the actual evil.

in my belief system, the christian and the saytenist both see themselves as one or the other direction, while the sahtahnist sees themselves as this fusion (analogical fractal fusion) of equal opposites (equal because of the nature of infinity on both (or all) sides).

i'm trying to figure out how to respond to your other comments.  for now, i hope this makes clearer what i meant above.

[mahi]

for me, weak and strong fall into the same patterns, given the infinity on all sides.  no matter how strong one gets, they're is going to be just as much strong beings that will consider you weak, and vice versa.

with disobedience and obedience, it's kind of the same.  the Self is the collective of the totality of selves.  obedience to one set of selves or others is disobedience to another set of selves.  the Self can only be obeyed/disobeyed given the nature of It's totality

since this is not the satanism that you are intending, i'll refrain from commenting further on this thread.

[Moon1ight]

On my favourite Catholic blog, there was recently a post which I wanted to comment on, but somehow the site eats my comment. Since I want to save the text, it goes here

 https://orthosphere.wordpress.com/2020/02/07/wrong-turns-and-bad-choices/
 
 "joy grows increasingly secretive and rare in the world that reason and science have made."

It somewhat saddens me to read that you find so little Joy in life.  Shouldn't you, in your Hope for eternal fulfillment and your Faith in God be more joyful?

And yet, you aren't. Because your theory – though beautiful and well thought out – is wrong. You give the proof yourself, your lack of Joy.

In Crowley, the true Glad Tidings, we read that 'The central idea of the White School is that, admitted that “everything is sorrow” for the profane, the Initiate has the means of transforming it to “Everything is joy.”' (If you take Crowley to be a Black Magician, consult "Magick without Tears", Chapters 6 and 7 – He's the very opposite)

To do God's Will, you have to find your own inner, true Will, which can be entirely different from Jesus'. This is God's task for you. Follow your own Pride and your own deepest Passions, like Lucifer, the first creation of God. Then you will find a Joy that is barely tarnished by "the world that reason and science have made."

I can explain Religion in one paragraph now: When a strong human finds his True Will, he feels its Truth so strongly and his life becomes so powerful, that he is tempted into the false belief that he has discovered everyone's True Will. Then he becomes a Prophet, like Jesus, who was probably very impressive indeed, but still made the fundamental mistake of taking his True Will for everyone's.

That's all there's to it. If you are not fulfilled and joyful, you are not doing God's will. Revelation is personal.

Looking forward to your views, dear Orthospherians
 
Your faithful occultist reader,
Moon1ight
Edit: This comment was rejected



Edit2: So, I had another go at the Orthosphere, with this comment. There was a rather fruitful discussion.

https://orthosphere.wordpress.com/2020/11/24/on-the-reality-and-ubiquity-of-witches/

Thanks for your answer, JMSmith. I feel like your first objection -- at least in regard to my position -- is refuted by your second.
"Anarchism [...] cannot stop the spirit that finds its Fulfillment in domination." Correct, but I do not argue for anarchism. I argue for everyone following their Fulfilment -- and clashing if conflict arises.

As you yourself say "Opposition to the will is good because it forces us to discard our frivolous desires and deepen our commitment to the things we are willing to fight for."

There are inherently two God-given Tasks to each spirit: Discover their Fulfilment ("True Will" in Crowley's terms) and Follow it.

As you know, to want an end is to want the necessary means. So if A finds his Fulfilment in domination, he will try to follow that, and B will have to resist. Perhaps by allying with C and D to remove A from their path -- by any means neccesary, as A stands in the way of their Task. Since God too apparently holds the view "Struggle does not crush our individuality, it is how we become who we are.", there is no contradiction here. The War itself is God-given.

My point is simply that this war has many directions, not just Christ and Antichrist. The Japanese spirits (to take a random example) take no side in that one and neither does the Greek pantheon. Even the Demons, if you read what the actual people who talk to them write, care rather little about Christ and Antichrist.

I've thoroughly enjoyed reading the Screwtape Letters, thanks to the Orthosphere, but one shouldn't take this onedimensional worldview as actual truth.


Let me try a different angle: Christians know that Guardian Angels exist. Occultists know too. However, only the latter are found to be conversing with them. Why? Because your Guardian Angels would tell you that your True Will is different from Christ's and you don't want to hear that.
My Angel and I find Fulfilment in Doing Magick, which according to your Church is sin in itself, even if I only use it to help my loved ones and enjoy life. So, should I listen to the Church or a Messenger of God? To ask the question is to answer it.

Of course you have to say that any angel who says that is a demon and any spirit at all that isn't aligned with Christ is a demon. But what arguments do you have for that position? Revelation? Then it's your revelation against mine - and mine is personal while yours is likely from a book.

Looking forward to further answers.