DKMU biznez- Everybody Read This.

[arjil]

So, I need input.
What do You need from your DKMU?
What do or did we do right?
What needs to change?
Where do You guys want to see this thing go?
this is important.  Please reply.

[Patchwork]

DKMU is the front for the war against reality still, ya?
Or have we given up because The Lord of the Rings was finally given a movie?
We could refine what that is, redefine our role, but as it is it's just a gathering point for people who need some friggin unicorns.


And as long as that's our mission statement, the desire to move forward is either going to further that, or just going to funnel people into some new side-project or another.


I would like to see y'all branch out into new mediums, encourage more discussion, and find a new focus as well as new avenues of approach for the original purpose of... everything...


You have your little godform tree of life. Awesome. No sarcasm, parts of it are frigging awesome. But that is not what I, myself, came here for. And now that that's done...


Maybe we can unleash some frigging Magic.

(Edit: Do we want to still call it a war? It's so... 1984... but then that's the point I guess. Maybe we could explore euphamisims with different connotations, such as "Tugging at the Veil" and "Redefining Reality")

[Okkvltist]

Well it seems at this point we can only really effect small pockets. I have yet seen past target institutions get toppled.
I think we maybe need to redo things a bit cause of the mass amounts of people that seem to want in. How to redo? I dunno, there's gotta be some sort of front we're not looking at.

[Oystero]

I website is great. I would propose ways of getting people together in actual physical bodies to be a good focus (anyone in or near San Jose, CA?). I feel like I log into sites and read a bunch and then figure that's enough. As a major introvert, I must admit that this is not enough. Meeting people in the non-digital universe, I think, should be emphasized. But I can't find any faults with DMKU as a philosophy or a website.

[Wheat]

So, I need input.
What do You need from your DKMU?
What do or did we do right?
What needs to change?
Where do You guys want to see this thing go?
this is important.  Please reply.

Not having been around from the start, all I can say regarding what you did or didn't do right is...limited. A lot of nuance and branching that to me, now is sort of like reading history books, from old posts here, archived files and so on. But I was very briefly made aware of the group years ago. And through a random purposeful set of events, got a reminder of it from none other than you. I had no clue who you were in relation to the DKMU. I think there's something to be said that a little phrase in an offhanded reply sparked a massive reaction for me.

Despite no real history with you guys yet I can answer the 'what you've done right' part anyway. You've taken a seemingly disparate group of people, who didn't even really fit in with people who didn't fit in and created a home for them. cue cheesy statement...created something magickal. And despite it sounding like there's been some ups and downs, here it still stands. And a new guy talking to you about it.

It seems like there's something happening, a lot of passion and drive from those of you who started it, but there seems to be a feeling of hitting a crossroads. But the fact it just doesn't wither up and die also says a lot about what you've fed into it and what it's fed back into everyone who has come into contact with it.

Now, what do *I* want from it? To Mulder out, I want to believe. I want to believe large scale magick can be done and attain results, to take part in it and witness it firsthand and not just as something to dig around and read about.

The state of 'reality' grows shittier and more oppressive and narrowminded everyday. The internet, now that it is fully accessible to everyone has created a shitty brand of evil magick. It's allowing ignorant hateful little people to see just how many more ignorant hateful little people there are. And they're connecting in a giant powerful ever growing web every single hour. And it is spreading from hateful little posts on news articles and shit like that, out into the real world at an exponential rate.

To me, DKMU, at its best, is a mirror to hold up to that. Its intent to be a web to alter and change and advance 'reality.' I don't mean a mirror to hold up to show these people just how small and tragic and wrong they are, but a mirror to hold up and when they look into it, they see fantastic crazy bizarre fractal  visions of what can and should and will be. Psyche shock, neural napalm. Wake the fuck up.

Globally the game of Let's You and Him Fight is being played out on a massive scale. People being deluded by politicians and religious figures that there are 2 sides to take and nothing else, when there are no sides. There's 7 billion people all being tricked into being at odds with each other down to the most base levels. Trying to debate with most people is pointless. People take a side, and then immediately behave exactly like the side they say they are against. Even when shown basic simple irrefutable facts, they will argue it, find a reason those facts are lies or biased.

But..they are all living in a state of non-reality at this point. Their minds are programming themselves to live in fiction of their own making, so that also means they are more susceptible to other unreal things getting slipped into their fiction suits.

What needs to change? Some spark, some definitive 'ok, our next thing we're doing is this, we create X sigil, do X invoking etc etc on this date, in these places for X reason.' Action breeds further action. Show people (like me) that large scale, even mid to small scale, group actions can impact things.

My ideas, things that have been roaming in my head, going to sources online, the big news pages on fb, at their main pages, and dropping sigils in, basic ones from phrases as simple as OPEN YOUR MIND, etc and blast them on a regular patterned basis.

Tagging things in the physical world is great, and public weirdness is always an awesome thing, but if there's a battleground, it is currently virtual.

Begin writing blogs that at face value seem right wing bigot bullshit while slipping power phrases into them. Writing blogs that seem full on left wing liberal and doing the same. Efforts to remove the gap between people and cut some strings.

I've also been thinking about things visually. Sigils and icons more polished, contrasting colors, quick looped gifs, things that people will scroll by in their endless arguments but still will stick in their heads simply due to the assault of color and shape being made to purposefully disorient for a brief moment. I've been working with really high contrast simple sigils in my own life, and to very quick tangible effect. Quick to charge, to release. I guess to me they feel more 'modern.'

Things like that, use the short term memory syndrome created by our current information overload against itself.

Rent a few goddamn billboards and put them on some highways. Once a month buy adspace on a specifically chosen set of websites to put subliminal sigilistic fuckery. Have it link to something strange, a single page with a word on it. Things like that. Put simple slogans on the ads or none at all.

Those are all just crumbs of much larger cakes(lies) that could be expanded upon.

tl;dr I want to see it go from something I've only gotten to read about to being part of something that grows big and powerful enough that the first ten years seems like the bare bones beginnings.

[arjil]

Thanks for the replies, keep em comin
from fbook, just so I don't forget and it doesn't get lost:  Jeffrey Turboff pointers, tutorials, reliable pathways of getting stuff to work, a textbook of sorts? not looking for dogma, but a way thru to efficacy.

[Frater Theodbald]

1)What do You need from your DKMU?


2) What do or did we do right?


3) What needs to change?


4) Where do You guys want to see this thing go?

1) I don't think DKMU is here to offer a public service.  If someone needs "something" from DKMU, then the process should be simple.  First, state your need.  Second, plan to do something and invite others in.  Third, reinterpret the trolls and discouragements as constructive criticism.  Fourth, act on it.


The fourth part is the most important.  DKMU (I'm not a founding member by any means but I've been on the old occultforums and on the old DBL forums) was not founded by people who needed a DKMU to do something for them.  It was founded by people who acted on their own needs and made them happen.


Sure, we've got newbies who are friggin' passive and complain and want DKMU to do something for them.  But we're not here for that.  I think we're a collective of people who get off their arse and get things done.


2) I'd rather answer "what do or did we do wrong?"  The answer is nothing.  DKMU didn't do anything wrong.  The books are awesome, the website is awesome, the people are awesome.  The godforms as a transformative initiatic or high magic process is an apotheosis of awesome.  Everything has been done right.


3) I believe that DKMU should not be seen as an institution.


4)  I'm really eager on working on different projects.  I loved the Halloween Projekt.  I tried to make a hockey project at some point that wasn't exactly popular (lol).  I know I'll be posting up other things eventually, though right now I feel like I'm waiting for another project to happen, namely the unofficial grimoire which I had volunteered for but haven't gotten any news yet.  In other words, I'm on standby and when I'll be bored of being on standby I'll take another initiative which may or may not be popular.  It would help if other people took more initiative and shared group things on the assault on reality.  Then again, passive people will be passive.

[arjil]

Frater- there should have been a *micdrop* after that.  Boom.

[Infidel]

Frater Theodbald said most of what's going on.

I'm not quite comfortable talking about my projects on a social networking site that feels entitled to use our posts as advertising. (read the ToS) Lets be honest, Viral Evocation isn't going to win them any ad dollars, but it isn't something the paranoid would want attached to such a public database, even if it is behind a "closed group" wall.

When did the old DBL forum wither away? Very quickly after the FB group grew to a larger size than the forum. And I completely agree with the previous attempts to kill off the facebook group - it serves to propagate a bunch of noise, in a cluttered, unfocused medium which discourages actual connection, content brainstorming, or even effective participation. Where the Arab Spring found it unique was that the site was an apparently innocuous link to communicate at all, but the West just simply isn't that desperate. Where this group had its hay-day on DBL, with sorted, easy to find-and-participate-in threads, FB gave us a marked drop in our ability to follow the premise.

Then, the DBL forums went away? That site was turning fallow anyway, but it was our root. There was a depth of content and conversation which could be stirred, reheated, and mined for future discussions. I regret that I didn't find a way to mirror that whole thing myself.

Its time we rebuilt. Its time we did something more. We have a tree of life of DKMU godforms. We have a history, a network of LS nodes, and a stated premise.

Its time to re-awaken our disdain for armchairs. Inactivity is one thing; friendly conversation in its place is healthy; chatter which only gets in the way of the premise is something else entirely.

[Ahavah Ain Soph]

Frater Theobald did a good job summing up a lot of what I've had to say on the matter. Aside from that, any points I would have, I've expressed multiple times already. Facebook is an annoyance. What do I need from DKMU? about the only thing I'd like to see encouraged is more of a focus on groups of people doing shitz, but that's not dkmu's job, it's the job of every person in here. Have a cool idea? Share it. Perhaps there will be others who share your vision, want to work on it with you, or can get inspired by your work.


I'm a bit guilty in that last one. I share some things, but I've always been a very solitary practitioner, so most stuff I do, I see as personal. Therefore, sharing it seems... relatively verboten. But it's not, and that's something I can work on. If I can get out of my "This shit's secret, shhh!" dumbassery, then fuck if others can't.

[Mason]

I agree with Frater. He did do a good job of summing things up.

So what I would like to see here at DKMU.....basically more activity. Most the latest forum replies are from 2 weeks ago. That is not much activity.

I will contribute and I am looking forward to seeing opportunities for me to do so.

Also a minute restructure would be nice. Keep the forum. Keep the dot org. But there really does need to be some relevant way to get new members without turning this into a CMG 1.0......what that way would be I have no clue. That seems to be the main thing that needs to be attended to though.

[Frater Hoop]

!) more people in IRC.


@)doesn't matter, what I liked you might not, we all got here differently.


#)Everything. All of it. Stagnation is death. Evolve or Die. DTTI:HTNF. Seriously. It's 2015, Chaos Magic is a tumblr tag, and explained in infographic cartoons on ultracultre. Its been talked about on vice and disinfo. We've made the glitch art and the hypersigils, our egregores are a hashtag on twitter and carved into dark and secret places across the globe. While DKMU isn't (and maybe really never was) just Chaos Magic, it has deep anchors in that method of thought.


DKMU was about witnessing  the fringe of reality, we are pirates remember? Why have anchors?


I'm not saying everything any of us have done is wrong or not worth doing anymore, however if you have to stop and ask the people around you what's comes next, then your not the ones scouting ahead anymore, and that is what needs to come back.


Dont ask me what needs to change, go change something and then come back and we can see if it was worth the adventure.


$)forward. We can't baby people anymore, if you want to teach post modernism or meta model 101 to people over and over go for it-but DKMU as a whole isn't a 101 class, do it on some other fb group. If people cant figure out how to get on the forums and find info, then they aren't ready yet. Fucking lurk more. DKMU isn't babbys first wizard course. We dont have to be dicks, but the info is out there on our site, on irc if you ask like your not a mongoloid, its on google. 


Were not your fucking khakis.


I'm not into activist magic, or trying to change the world. I'm into into the DKMU godforms or their mystery cults. I'm here because when I showed up this place was the shit you heard the retarded people speaking vaguely of in negative tones. It was "those practitioners"- it was where the real new shit was coming out, it was different, and I made friends and traveled the country and did magic and strange chemicals with people. And I love them.


And if LS, or the name DKMU or the fucking concept of how magic works or anything holds us back from being different, where the new shit is at, or from being "those practitioners" then fucking toss it overboard we don't need it.


OR KILL ME.

[Shaytanah]

Hi.  I'm Shaytanah...one of the newbies.  (Oistars?)

Random insomnia and some nudgings prompted me to login here again and I'm reminded that I had committed to myself to be active here.

I'll chime in and say first, thanks for the original post and questions.  Good thinking.

Second, all excellent points here in my opinion, and specific ones that resonate with me are Wheat's, Frater's, Arjil's and Infidel's.  I also learned some things so I'm glad for the conversation.

Wheat's resonated with me a lot because I'm new not only to DKMU but also to chaos magick and its branches of evolution, but Frater's also was very helpful because one it gave sort of an introductory perspective or realignment of thinking, and two, it was empowering.

As someone who might be your typical interested, unsure lurker, part of what's held me back from jumping in is the feeling that I don't know enough.  Now, I'm a solitary practitioner of several years, and an avid, avid reader.  I read as much of the materials as I could, and I will be going back to them frequently.  But there are some things you really just cannot learn from reading, especially when what you're reading, despite intention, is still carrying insider implicit cultural references and assumptions.  Still I'm so glad it was there, and also really impressed...from a nerd/scholarly perspective, I was really blown away by the documentation of a modern "folklore."  So it was really cool.

All that being said, I get the sense from some of these answers that "knowing" isn't the point.  Waiting for overt leadership isn't, either.  DOING is the point.  So thank you for that.  I'm going to do just that and muddle through here as much as I can.  I've been successful so far.

For the purposes of the OP's information-gathering, fyi, I *am* into activist magick, and that was a huge draw for me to this group.  I had a friend into chaos magick years ago that told me about LS.  I was intrigued at the time, and I remembered it years later enough to ask about it again after said friend had long fell out of contact, and she gave me a lead to the materials which I read until I had a headache.  The reason her story stuck with me was because of how empowering it felt, and the sense of hope I got.  I also felt that sense of recognition when you realize you're NOT the only person out there who thinks the way you do...you're far from unique, and that's a good thing.

I LOVED the idea of marauders underground doing energetic work, the inspiring message from some of the media magicians on YouTube with the idea of assaulting consensual reality, and I will point out that magick (and prayer or other forms of faith, religion, spirituality and esoteric pursuits) has always been a favored power for those who perceive themselves otherwise powerless. 

So at the time, between around 2010 and 2014, when all that negative, demoralizing energy was going around in the world and everything was going wrong for most people (I'm sure you all felt it too), it gave me a sense of hope and purpose.  I have thought of and described DKMU as "the Anonymous of magick."  The part about that which appeals to me is the fighting back and taking charge.  (I'm less of a "spread chaos for chaos' sake" kind of person, but I can respect and honor the approach and people who have that energy to them...hell, I work primarily with destructive deities and tricksters.)  I know I'm a powerful person, when I remember to acknowledge it and actually do something.  So knowing there were people out there doing just that was incredible. 

The second thing that really stuck with me was the group work, especially that which occurred in person and drew people together from various distances.  That is something which I have craved.  I've been solitary until very recently, mostly out of a feeling of necessity.  I just didn't feel like I knew how to find people who had the same vibe as me, who wanted to do big things, challenge assumptions in magickal practice and paganism specifically, who felt truly comfortable with their own moral compass.  Ultimately, I'd have to say that's the number one reason I'M here.  As a means to an end, I intend to do my best to meet people I can work with locally, or virtually, if I have to, but definitely in other ways than by simply writing and talking.  Thank you for asking.

Whatever you all decide to do with the forum structures I'll certainly support, and while I might have made some suggestions along the lines of "institutionalizing," reading all the answers has me pondering that and seeing that there are other ways of being active.  So I will simply do my part to participate and keep the momentum going.  I don't think this work (?) group (?) movement (?) is likely to die...like, ever.

One last thing...I definitely agree with the ideal of NOT being on Facebook.  I'm an avid proponent of the power of social media in many other ways and areas of my life, but this would not be one of them.  It's so, so tempting, but when it comes to magick, sources are important, and Facebook comes from a source seeking to do the very things I suspect most of us are against.  It's a tool of control and oppression in *some* ways.  Maybe it's worth it to take the tool and use it against the origins of its birth, but I think if that were to be done then it would really need to be *done,* as in, committed to and intentionally (speaking energetically not like "hacking" or anything).  That being said, perhaps "killing" it is too exhaustive a task and not a good use of energy, and letting it "die" rather while the movement in general continues to evolve in other ways, such as here, is the best approach.  For myself, I'm simply trying to avoid the temptation to use it and choose to come here instead.  Forums are not my usual way of interacting, but I'll get used to it.

[thief_and_a_liar]

So, I need input.
What do You need from your DKMU?
What do or did we do right?
What needs to change?
Where do You guys want to see this thing go?
this is important.  Please reply.

For me it's enough with a chat (IRC), facebook and forum just so I can interact with people interested in the occult. Now the forum is the only thing I am not banned from, which is two things I would like the DKMU to change.

So, I am just looking for a place where we can share ideas, nothing more.


-thief

[Tara Flower]

Shaytanah, why not come over and post on our new Oistar board on this forum?